I’ve always found it odd, wasteful, for the Conservative Party to be fighting against people in either the UUP or the DUP, most of whom we have very little disagreement with and who, by and large, vote with us in the House of Commons – what is the point?In other words: "What's the point of the Northern Irish Conservatives"?
A bit of context regarding Mr Robertson's opinions is appropriate at this point:
1. He is a member of the right-wing Freedom Association, an organisation that, amongst other things, declares itself to be "against equal opportunities policies".
2. He still remains opposed to the Belfast Agreement.
3. He is (along with the majority of the DUP parliamentary group) a member of "The Better Off Out" group.
4. He has had problems with the Conservative leadership on the "race" issue; having said that "cramming" together different racial groups was making society difficult to manage", he was forced to apologise or lose the party whip.
To go back to the "what's the point?" question.
The truth is that more than ever before, Northern Irish voters should have the democratic option to vote for a non-communal, right of centre, modern, pro-Union party which is present in all four parts of the United Kingdom. The Northern Irish Conservatives now need to give themselves a good shake and get that message out to the unreconstructed wing of their own party, never mind the electorate.
10 comments:
His basic point does have logic, presuming the UUP is a close substitute for Conservatives, and takes the Conservative whip so that a UUP vote when it comes to Westminster, is a vote for the Conservative nanifesto.
The UCUNF idea was a recognition of his basic point. The problems with UCUNF's implementation did not mean this basis point was wrong.
God luv ye Oneill but one day the penny will drop regarding just why these types are attracted to British unionism, especially the six counties of Ulster variety.
Understanding it is not quite the same as that "aha!" moment when clarity kicks in. You and your ilk who *still* believe that the beast of Ulster Unionism is reformable must now hold your meetings in a telephone box.
Slug,
I think the problem is that the DUP and many in the UUP would have problems with the values and standards of the modern Conservative party. By saying that all three parties are Unionist parties and the electorate shouldn't therefore be offered any further choice on social and cultural issues is the main plank of the Unionist Unity argument and I think undemocratic and ultimately damaging for the Union
God luv ye Oneill but one day the penny will drop regarding just why these types are attracted to British unionism, especially the six counties of Ulster variety
The fact that Hitler was attracted to vegetarianism and apparently also animal rights shouldn't persuade us all necessarily to order a T bone for dinner or give the dog a boot!
In other words, whether Ulster Unionism is reformable or not is a totally different question to the whether the Union is worthwhile continuing with.
"I think the problem is that the DUP and many in the UUP would have problems with the values and standards of the modern Conservative party"
This is not clear to me at all, I think they have similar values. What is a problem in NI is the Conservatives image and brand.
"This is not clear to me at all, I think they have similar values. What is a problem in NI is the Conservatives image and brand."
Slug,
He did mention both the UUP and the DUP- I don't think there is any argument that the DUP and the modern Conservatives image and brand could co-exist easily together, so that leaves the UUP.
In my opinion, the UCUNF project was doomed to failure dues to the fact was that there were not enough members and particularly of the elite in the UUP prepared to sign up to what Cameron and Empey had promised at the start, a UK, modern, non-communal version of Unionism.
It's true that a fair proportion of the UUP/Con candidates would have represented those values, but it is also true in the end that the FST pact, Hatfield, the resignation of the Catholic Con candidates created a very mixed message.
People with attitudes like those possessed by Cobain, McNarry, Watson do exist in the Conservative Party in England,Scotland, wales but unlike the UUP, they do not dictate the direction of the party, quite the opposite in fact. Two examples to prove the point would be the attitudes towards homosexuality and minority language rights.
Will we ever see a UUP happy to welcome a leadership team containing openly gay people? Will we ever see a UUP happy to deal with the Irish language on the same basis as the Welsh Conservatives do with Welsh?
"I don't think there is any argument that the DUP and the modern Conservatives image and brand could co-exist easily together, so that leaves the UUP."
To clear up any ambivalence, I meant that there is no possibility of the DUP and the modern Conservative brand co- existing easily together
"The truth is that more than ever before, Northern Irish voters should have the democratic option to vote for a non-communal, right of centre, modern, pro-Union party which is present in all four parts of the United Kingdom."
If only that were right. At the moment, it would be very hard for many in NI (particularly Catholics) to appreciate a practical distinction between your words "non-communal" and "pro-union"
Having had thoughts that have travelled many distances and tried to overcome many perceived obstacles, I have concluded that there are only two ways that cross-community politics can work. These are:
(1) A cross-community alliance between two or more of Northern Ireland#s parties. It has been suggested that the UUP might have an alliance with the SDLP. Unfortunately, the SDLP is too socialist for the UUP. They would find it difficult to agree on Education. If the UUP adopts the long-term Conservative position on the size of the public sector, in relation to the rest of the economy, there will be stresses on policy with the SDLP here as well.
(2) Cross commununity political parties occupying particular ground on the left-right political spectrum with polity limited to Northern Ireland (see below)
The Conservative Party, which has the responsibility to Govern Nationally, is not going to be able to compete with the regional populism of parties who have no responsibility to raise revenue and are able to blame the Government for lack of funds when things go wrong with the supply of public services. It will be a very long time before NI is ready to take devolution of significant revenue-raising powers.
Also, the hope that a Unionist Party, just because it is non-sectarian, has any chance of attracting significant numbers of Catholics is, unfortunately, unrealistic.
The Conservative Party is also a toxic brand both amongst Unionists and Nationalists. The most realistic way forward for centre-right cross-community politics is for the formation of a new non-designated centre right party which can attract right of centre voters from both communities. I hope that the Conservative Party realises all these matters and gives its blessing to the formation of a new party out of the NI Conservatives.
I appreciate this is a hard one for Unionists to swallow, for the time being. More stress testing of various political boundaries will be needed before the majority of Northern Irish people arrive at that point of view.
Underneath all this there is a simple question: should people resident in Northern Ireland be banned from membership of the Conservative Party – or the Labour Party?
It is perfectly arguable that it was the post-Partition exclusion of Northern Ireland from broader forms of political expression that produced the uniquely fragrant juice in which we all continue to stew.
Seymour,
If only that were right. At the moment, it would be very hard for many in NI (particularly Catholics) to appreciate a practical distinction between your words "non-communal" and "pro-union"
The Union in itself is an abstract which is neutral in terms of community, religion etc.
It doesn't have to be the sole or even major policy of a political party here but I also don't think we should be ashamed to hope to see a non-communal, pro-Union party prosper, be it the NI Conservatives or whoever. The important point is giving people the choice though.
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