Welsh has been used officially for the first time in a meeting of European Union ministers.
The move has been hailed as historic and follows years of campaigning for Welsh to be recognised in the EU.
Wales' Culture Minister Alun Ffred Jones is leading the UK delegation in Brussels and spoke in Welsh in the Council of Ministers.
His first words in Welsh to the Council of Ministers were: "Diolch madam llywydd (thank you madam chair) ..."
The extra costs of translation are being borne by the Welsh Assembly Government
That last sentence isn't entirely accurate though, is it? It's not the Welsh MLAs who are forking out of their own pockets but ultimately the UK taxpayer surely? I've no idea what the total cost has been to date, but hopefully it's worked out slightly less than 13000 euros per minute.
The wider question of the funding of culture (including sport) is going to become a burning one as the inevitable tightening of belts continues across the UK; that being the case, it's certain we're going to see more measures like this:
The written record of proceedings in the Welsh assembly chamber will no longer be fully bilingual in future.
The words of AMs speaking English will not be printed in Welsh, to save some £250,000a year, although Welsh will continue to be translated into English.
The Assembly Commission said the arrangements were being brought into line with those for committees.
It said it would consider making un-translated earlier versions of the record available.
A spokesman for the Assembly Commission, in charge of the day-to-day running of the assembly, said it was "looking to make a number of improvements to the provision of the availability of National Assembly for Wales proceedings".
This measure isn't a denigration of the *indigenous* tongue of the Welsh, just common sense- there isn't one political representative in the whole of the United Kingdom who is incapable of understanding the United Kingdom's primary official language, so then why on earth is translation needed from English? Translation will still be required in the other direction, ie from Welsh (and indeed Irish/Scottish gaelic) to English so I can't imagine it's going to cost that many interpretators' or translators' presently working in this area their livelihoods.
21 comments:
More jobs for the boys and girls. That's when they're not interpreting for immigrants or translating umpteen NHS and DSS brochures and leaflets into 22+ languages.
*indigenous* languages of the Wales ...
Translation please
Why is Welsh a tongue but English a language?
It was an attempt at "style" (I'd used "language" too many times). If you can think of another poetic synonym for language then I might even use that...
More jobs for the boys and girls; and yet another massive bill for the hard-suffering Taxpayer.
Little wonder we have such a fiscal deficit...
An attempt at style? How often do you see references to the English tongue?
Admit it. It's pejorative in this context.
How often do you see references to the English tongue?
"A Proposal for Correcting, Improving and Ascertaining the English Tongue"
By Jonathan Swift
There's one for starters, over 12 million other references to the "English tongue" on google.
So, no in this context, it's not pejorative.
No luck with those poetic synonyms then?
I can’t say I’ve seen too many commentators/politicians demanding that immigrants to the UK should learn the English tongue. However in any discussion of Welsh, Irish or Scots Gaelic it’s strange that the word ‘tongue’ crops up so often. Could it be that they are not quite ‘proper’ languages?
How about “This measure isn't a denigration of Welsh ... ? I’m not sure why the word ‘indigenous’ was necessary either.
The written record of proceedings in the Welsh assembly chamber will no longer be fully bilingual in future.
Yet the Welsh Assembly Government insist that local authorities continue to translate English into Welsh, double standards I think.
If you find the use of the word tongue as a synonym for language pejorative, perhaps you should complain to the Welsh Language Society – the group that campaigns against such bias. You could even write a letter to their magazine highlighting your worries. The magazine is called Tafod y Ddraig – The Dragon’s Tongue.
Anonymous @August 7, 2009 5:32 PM
This was a book written by an American author who was at Lampeter University at the same time my sister was:
"Travels in an Old Tongue: Touring the World Speaking Welsh"
by Pamela Petro
I don't think it's derogatory, you do, I'll leave others reading to judge for themselves.
Re "indigenous"- is that also pejorative in your book? Sinn Fein frequently in NI use the term in respect of the Irish language. I think it's possibly a pejorative term, a none too subtle attempt to denigrate those who because of their familys' ancestry have never had the opportunity to learn the language, I might be wrong.
Any thoughts on the post itself, can you make an argument for keeping English-Welsh translation facilities in the Assembly?
"United Kingdom's primary official language"
News to me that English is the primary official language - did you make that up?
This "decision" will be overturned. It's just Dafydd Elis thomas having a laugh.
"News to me that English is the primary official language - did you make that up?"
Perhaps I should have included a "de facto”"there, but even so, in the vast majority of cases what is the language of UK officialdom be it bureaucracy, the judiciary or whatever?
"This "decision" will be overturned. It's just Dafydd Elis thomas having a laugh."
Why is it a bad decision exactly? No one has answered that yet.
Welsh speakers will still have the right to address the Assembly in Welsh and if all Welsh MLAs have at least a working grasp of the English er…”tongue” then surely that quarter of a million is money which could be better spent in these difficult times?
It's the principle of bilingualism and equality. Translate the Welsh into English but not English into Welsh. Gwynedd Countuy Council have simultaneous translation for the benefit of the few non Welsh speaking councillors. Should we scrap that also?
"Gwynedd Countuy Council have simultaneous translation for the benefit of the few non Welsh speaking councillors. Should we scrap that also?"
You're not comparing like with like. Monolinguists are entitled translation when there are speeches etc in a language which isn't their mother tongue. Bi-linguists have the right to make their point in which of the two languages they choose. But if they understand both languages, what then is the point of translation between the two?
IT's the point abourt capability that I reject (It's often used)- it's almost as if the Welsh language would be better off if we had more monoglots - whereas I think bilingualism provides insight. Would you agree that if this decision is not reversed then English would have a superior status to Welsh in our Assembly?
"whereas I think bilingualism provides insight."
I agree 100% with you on that, but how does the translation from a language that is 100% understood by all MLAs into Welsh aid bilingualism- will it lead to more people learning the language?
"Would you agree that if this decision is not reversed then English would have a superior status to Welsh in our Assembly?"
No, I don't think so, that would only be the case if people were forced to speak in English. You're arguing from a subjective pov whereas I'm looking at the practical- eg if the quarter of a million saved was pushed towards language courses for non-Welsh speakers in the Assembly I could see more of a practical benefit.
Sorry, you haven’t convinced me. I said the use of ‘tongue’ was pejorative in this context. Why do you need to use a ‘poetic’ (or should that be slightly archaic) word when discussing Government policy? ‘Indigenous’ is superfluous rather derogatory, unless it’s for the benefit of a Northern Irish readership.
I do have views on the policy and will be sharing them with my compatriots.
Sorry, you haven’t convinced me.
Well if I haven't, then I haven't.
I'm content to let regular readers make their own opinion on what I've put in the post and the thread.
No -I want a bilingual Wales with all official documents in both languages so we get a choice. If Datdd's proposal goes through then it means the Welsh language is an inferior language in the assembly administration - the only government we have.
It appears to have been approved by the Asssembly Commission whose membership consists of Dafydd Elis Thomas, William Graham (Con), Chris Franks (Plaid Cymru), Peter Black (Lib Dem) and Lorraine Barrett (Lab). The issue of ceasing to produce a fully bilingual ‘Cofnod’ was first raised by Dafydd Elis Thomas in a leaked e-mail back in 2000. It’s not a ‘credit-crunch’ decision; it’s a Dafydd Elis Thomas decision.
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