Unfortunate England that does not have MPs of the calibre of those of Scotland and Wales who have got such a brilliant deal for their constituents!
That will be the rallying cry of CEP members who will be campaigning from Sept 6th to October 1st in open air rallies and in meetings from one end of England to the other, in Berwick on Tweed, Manchester, Birmingham and Bournemouth, bringing the attention of politicians and media to the injustice and unfairness for England of the 1998 devolution legislation.
You can read the rest here.
The first thing that struck me was that in this age of the internet and the corresponding information overload, how quaint the notion of open air rallies and meetings now sounds; not criticising, it’s just for me it conjures up pictures of Michael Foot in his donkey-jacket speaking at CND rallies or Arthur Scargill rabble-rousing the miners- forgotten images from a forgotten political epoch.
And the second connected point, how little a chance they really have of influencing anyone with this kind of project. I’m confident that England’s MPs will be already fully aware of the CEP and their quest for an English parliament; the question the English nationalists should be asking themselves then is why their representatives at Westminster feel that there is no need for them to push the case. I’ll give you one, how about no real demand from their constituents? With one or two honourable exceptions, the modern politician and his party follows the voice of the mob (hence the negligible difference in policy between Labour and Tories, it really is all down to presentation and PR now) and the mob are not yet baying on this question.
My third point, and it’s one I’ve touched upon before, is that if I were an English nationalist wanting to push for my own parliament, I would give up on the MPS (and indeed their constituents) as presently a bad job. I would be concentrating on the tabloids, principally The Sun and The Daily Mail, constantly pumping them with articles and stories proving (or attempting to prove) your argument. It’s a double-edged sword, of course, and it would be interesting to see how the more principled of the CEP would react to the kind of headlines and provocation ("Slap it to the Sweaties") such a campaign would be likely to provide...but as much as I despise the Currant Bun and it’s typical reader, the power it wields in our society is much greater (in an unhealthy way) than you’re ever likely to accumulate from stepping on your soap-box and haranguing to a few grannies out doing their shopping.
15 comments:
No - I am sorry; you have that wrong. They don't follow the voice of the mob - they dance to the sound of the whip. The Party whip that is.
There is considerable evidence that given the option the English would vote for an English Parliament, included the poll run by the BBC - all indicating that over 60% of the english people would opt for an English Parliament if given the chance.
This is a greater percentage than voted for a Welsh Assembly - and yet they not only had the option they even got the assembly! Now why do you think that was?
Now you can sneer at the actions of the CEP or the English Democrats, but in truth they are more in touch what the real people want than you are, I'm afraid.
An English Parliament will be the death of politicians like Brown and Alexander being able to legislate for a nation that can't ever vote them out. It might ensure that tax money raised in England is actually spent in England and not syphoned off to Scotland via the Barnet Formula, as money being spent in England on the UK olympics is at present. Money for doing nothing - great gift your fellow Scots isn't it? And yet we haven't got the money for NICE to fund certain cancer medications for English Patients.
Union - don't make me laugh. This is no union, it is a rort,and like all rorts needs to be destroyed.
No - I am sorry; you have that wrong. They don't follow the voice of the mob - they dance to the sound of the whip. The Party whip that is.
The whips keep them under control within parliament; they still have to listen to the mob every 4 years or so to get re-elected.
There is considerable evidence that given the option the English would vote for an English Parliament, included the poll run by the BBC - all indicating that over 60% of the english people would opt for an English Parliament if given the chance.
I seen a poll a couple of months ago where a sample in England had to list their top 5 concerns, not one of that 5 were constitutional. Indirectly, you could argue that eg health provision is affected by devolution (I’d argue it more strongly that that) but people still are not, as a whole, linking that with the devolution experiment.
This is a greater percentage than voted for a Welsh Assembly - and yet they not only had the option they even got the assembly! Now why do you think that was?
It doesn’t presently suit Labour's purposes.
Now you can sneer at the actions of the CEP or the English Democrats, but in truth they are more in touch what the real people want than you are, I'm afraid.
I don’t sneer at them, I just don’t think (as an interested observer) they adopt effective tactics- one headline in the Sun will achieve more than 100 open air rallies- I wish it weren’t the truth, but it is. And if the English Democrats are more in touch with the real people, then it would be reflected at the ballot box, but it isn’t.
An English Parliament will be the death of politicians like Brown and Alexander being able to legislate for a nation that can't ever vote them out. It might ensure that tax money raised in England is actually spent in England and not syphoned off to Scotland via the Barnet Formula, as money being spent in England on the UK olympics is at present. Money for doing nothing - great gift your fellow Scots isn't it? And yet we haven't got the money for NICE to fund certain cancer medications for English Patients.
1.I couldn’t care less what happens to Brown and Co.
2.I (like my fellow citizens in the rest of the UK) pay exactly the same taxes as you; it does piss me off sometimes that it’s used to subsidise Geordie and Scouse layabouts, but I can live with it.
3.(Unfortunately) 2012 appears to be evolving into the London as opposed to a truly UK Olympics, but I don’t really get your point on this I’m afraid
4.I’m not Scottish
Union - don't make me laugh. This is no union, it is a rort,and like all rorts needs to be destroyed.
Prior to the devolution experiment were you happy with the UK, proud to be British?
I've been an English Nat since 1967
when on sailing on a merchant ship for a year with a crew of scotsmen I found out at the age of 17 I was an English cunt.
I also found out on later voyages that protestant norn irelanders don't like southern irelanders just a little bit more than they don't like the English. As far as I'm concerned the sooner England is free the better. It's you fuckers in the non English parts of the uk that are more trouble than you are worth.
harry,
I can only speak for myself, I might dislike their politics but I can honestly say that I don't hate anyone simply because of where they were born.
But that's beside the main point, if that's what you believe then that's what you believe; nothing I'll write will change your mind, so to that extent you're not really who I'm targetting my overall message at.
You will find that the people you are trying to target with your overall message, will have been at some time or other, been on the receiveng end of the same bile as I got.you're finished.
Well,lets give the English people a vote on wether they would like an English parliament or not,the Scots and Welsh people were given the opportunity to vote for their countries best interests,so why not the English?
What are the Unionists afraid of i wonder?just what benefits do the English receive from this union now as it stands?absolutely none it is a national disgrace and wouldnt be tolerated anywhere else.Roll on an English parliament.
What are the Unionists afraid of i wonder?
I'm on record as saying that I think a referendum on the English parliament should, for reasons of fairness, take place.
So, in my case, "nothing" is the answer to your last question.
But that's not really connected with my original post, the tactics employed by the CEP.
Nobody prepared to address that particular question, or will you all content yourselves by repeating ad infinitum that the Union's finished?
There has been a lot of talk (and a rigged poll) about Berwick being handed over to the control of Scotland.
Now by your argument an open air rally in Berwick that opposes this, which will get on the local news and which has already interested local papers is apparently completely irrelevant.
In what way?
Do you think that abandoning Berwick to those who want Scotland to annexe it is the best way to let the people of Berwick know that their fellow English are concerned about them?
Manchester is aimed at attendees of the Labour Party Conference.
Birmingham is inside the Tory Party Conference, (I am one of those attending on behalf of the CEP).
And Bournemouth is at the Lib Dem Conference, (I am speaking at a Fringe Meeting).
So are you arguing that talking directly to MPs and party activists is a waste of time?
As for the daily newspapers, there is a story every day, in one paper or another, about the effects of Devolution.
Did you watch the Panorama on Britishness last Monday? Did you see ordinary people being questioned on the streets about it? Did you hear the answer one gave that it was just "Scotland First, British Next, England Last"?
The ordinary people of England understand all too well. You should be gald it's not yet their top concern, because if it becomes so then it really will be too late for the Union.
M.P.' s are placemen and yellow bastards to boot. A lot of so-called English M.P.'s are NOT English.
As for getting letters published, the papers editors are also placemen and cowards to boot! A lot of newspaper editors are NOT English.
Add to that the bent, so-called democratic voting system and what do you have?
The idea that us English dont care about our own country. Everyone knows this is an utter lie!
The union? Ha! ha! ha! ha! Do me a favour mate?
So are you arguing that talking directly to MPs and party activists is a waste of time?
Not a waste of your time, but for an organisation with limited resources (financial and manpower-wise as well as time) perhaps not the best way you could use your time.
You'll know by now that I'm very cynical about UK politicians and partys- all you speak to will already know about your campaign, but at this time, for purely party political reasons I'm doubtful that you will get any kind of positive response. Couple of months of headlines in tabloids and that would all change...which actually when I think a bit further about is maybe why the Berwick rally actually makes more sense- a PR exercise that bypasses the politicians, aimed as much at the media as the few people listening.
You should be gald it's not yet their top concern, because if it becomes so then it really will be too late for the Union.
If they're informed constantly by their daily rag that it's their top concern, then it is curtains...at the minute, for whatever reason, it doesn't appear to be in Murdoch and Co's interest to do so.
Regarding panorama, I was too wacked out after our journey home to watch it. I recorded it but having read this review, perhaps for the sake of my blood-pressure I give it a miss!
http://threethousandversts.blogspot.com/2008/08/panorama-and-britishness.html
>>Do you think that abandoning Berwick to those who want Scotland to annexe it is the best way to let the people of Berwick know that their fellow English are concerned about them?<<
Haud yir horses, what you won by force and what the people decide by democratic plebiscite are entirely different matters. Let the people decide.
As a proud Scot who long ago realised that my country's best interests are best served by looking to ourselves. I wish our English neighbours well in all they seek.
This is a worry however;
"Unfortunate England that does not have MPs of the calibre of those of Scotland and Wales who have got such a brilliant deal for their constituents!"
I'd be sad to think that the myth of our aquiring more money from the exchequer was being propagated here. We simply have better politicians in the SNP, as evidenced recently.
"what you won by force" - No, actually that would be what you won by force, seeing as Berwickshire and indeed Lothian were originally part of Northumbria and England.
It was your Kings (Malcolm and onwards) who were determined to drive the Scots border south deep into England, and the border as it now stands is merely the defensible point at which this process stopped.
But yes, let's have a referendum and let the people decide. Of course that will need both alternatives being presented, and not just the Scottish one...
Wildgoose
Dou you think there would be a Scottish view put without an English view? How paranoid!
Also being temporarily part of Northumbria or Bernicia or Angle territory does not necessarily equate to being part of England dear boy. There was a Scotland before there was an England, and this area has been an accepted part of Scotland. Now don't get me started on what some folk are saying in Cumbria, like how they wished the border could move south slightly etc.
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. :-)
And I think you will find that England predates Scotland, seeing as England can claim to be the oldest unified nation in Europe - our currency, the pound sterling is the oldest currency in the world that is still in use.
Last time I checked Wildgoose we were the older nation.
I was about to post regarding Kenneth MacAlpine being the first king of a united Scotland long before an England existed. However wiki has just disabused me of this(I know wiki should not be trusted) However even in going over the revisionist stuff we were still a united kingdom before what is now regarded as a united England. England doing so in 927(permanently in 954) whereas Scotland's first king(king of Alba as opposed to Pictland, Dalriada or Strathclyde) died in 900. I still like the idea of Kenneth MacAlpine though, he had the vision of a united Alba.
As for the currency, I stand in awe of your abilities to educate;¬)
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