has revealed only one official complaint has been received by Belfast City Council regarding the flying of the Union Flag at the building in the past five years.
The complainant – who was a member of the public and made their grievance known formally to Belfast City Council in May last year – was objecting to the Union Flag flying 365 days of the year.
One complaint in five years…..but that won’t stop the Shinner’s latest attempt at cultural cleansing.
13 comments:
Sadly and deplorably, it's probably only a matter of time before Irish Republicans could be in the Majority at Belfast City Council; and, as a consequence, we must steel ourselves for the removal and banning of all British symbols on Council property. Unless, possibly, there were some sort of "quid pro quo" agreed, whereby they got to fly their national flag...
Tim
Now that would be a sad day for all you and your ilk hold dear now wouldn't it Tim? Let's hope it comes soon!
Equality and the like. Really puts things in perspective who the right-wing nut-jobs are when they describe striving for equality as cultural cleansing.
Sad!
Now that would be a sad day for all you and your ilk hold dear now wouldn't it Tim? Let's hope it comes soon!
And in the very unlikely event that it ever does, what flag would you expect to be flying over the City Hall?
From what I've heard at both City Hall and Stormont, there are objects and items which connect to the wider Irish and even Irish nationalist tradition- the "equality" you speak of dictates that they have a right to be there.
However,in the Belfast Agreement as you are aslo well aware, is enshrined the principle of consent, which was signed up to by all parties to the agreement. All parties agreed that NI remains in the UK until the majority decides otherwise. The flag of the UK is the Union flag, the flag of NI is the Union flag- Belfast City Council is flying the flag of the nation of which it remains a part.
Really puts things in perspective who the right-wing nut-jobs are when they describe striving for equality as cultural cleansing
Nobody forces you to read this blog; if you do decide to do so great, if you want to comment, even better.
But if you're going to throw nursery-school insults around then, I'm going to do both you and me a favour and remove your comment next time.
If you want to be abusive, I suggest you stick to Slugger or try out the Scotsman comments section where they seem more than happy to let infantile name-calling ruin what could be very useful debating chamber.
Fair enough?
>>And in the very unlikely event that it ever does, what flag would you expect to be flying over the City Hall?<<
Does there need to be a flag? Other places manage fine without the need to fly the butchers apron all year round.
>>All parties agreed that NI remains in the UK until the majority decides otherwise. The flag of the UK is the Union flag, the flag of NI is the Union flag- Belfast City Council is flying the flag of the nation of which it remains a part.<<
Is there a point in there or were you having a rule Brittania moment?
And I take it from your silly threats that the right-wing nut job remark hit the mark? Tell me who else opposes equality without good reason, except for these type of oppressors? I will happily apologise if you can furnish me with a good reason not to have equality in areas where both traditions work?
Does there need to be a flag?
There doesn’t need to be one anymore than there doesn't need to be a flag flying over Westminster.
But with the principle of consent agreed to by all parties within the
Belfast Agreement, then, whilst the majority of NI’s citizens wish to remain within the UK, Belfast City Council is entitled to fly the flag of the UK.
Other places manage fine without the need to fly the butchers apron all year round.
Terminology like“butchers” (sic) “apron”- is that an example of the famed republican "equality of respect” and “parity of esteem”?
>>All parties agreed that NI remains in the UK until the majority decides otherwise. The flag of the UK is the Union flag, the flag of NI is the Union flag- Belfast City Council is flying the flag of the nation of which it remains a part.<<
Is there a point in there or were you having a rule Brittania” (sic) “moment?”
Pointing out the constitutional status of NI and thus its capital city; feel free to correct any factual errors mistake I may have made there.
And I take it from your silly threats that the right-wing nut job remark hit the mark?
I’ve been called a lot worse elsewhere. We can go down the road of calling each other “right wing nut jobs” and “sanctimonious hypocritical apologists for republican terrorism” ad infinitum, but in my opinion once a blog starts allowing personal insults and abuse to pass as comments, then the standard of debate inevitably declines.
I’ve outlined the commenting policy on here, it’s up to you if you want to abide by it; if you don’t, then your offending comments will be removed.
Tell me who else opposes equality without good reason, except for these type of oppressors? I will happily apologise if you can furnish me with a good reason not to have equality in areas where both traditions work?
Let’s try this again. Every citizen of the UK is entitled to “equality” under law- I agree with that, in some areas (eg female reproductive rights), I don
’t think that legislation goes far enough. That “equality” does not extend to the individual citizen deciding unilaterally what are and what are not acceptable symbols of the UK- that is Westminster’s job.
I can run through that principle of consent thing yet again, but in summary NI is a part of the UK not the Republic- the flag of NI remains the Union flag. Any council
within the Uk is entitled to fly the flag of the United Kingdom
>>Any council
within the Uk is entitled to fly the flag of the United Kingdom<<
Sure, but when the majority of the councilers, and indeed the people decide otherwise. What will you do then? Is this zero sum game necessary? Seems like an awfy silly waste of time. If Unionists stick to what they know, ie intransigence, then that I'm afraid is what we will get. Considering that as expected Nationalists will be the majority in belfast in the near future.
>>in my opinion once a blog starts allowing personal insults and abuse to pass as comments, then the standard of debate inevitably declines.<<
Fair enough.
Must admit this was funny;
>>Terminology like“butchers” (sic) “apron”- is that an example of the famed republican "equality of respect” and “parity of esteem”?<<
When have Unionists ever lowered themselves to show equality of respect or parity of esteem? Jeezo, they only ran a two tier sectarian state, under the auspices of HM for nigh on 50 years.
Considering that as expected Nationalists will be the majority in belfast in the near future.
Not sure that's true with all the mucking about with the new council areas, but say it does happen- then yep if they vote to not fly the flag, then we have to live with that- its the case in most of the councils west of the Bann and if that's what's democratically decided then that's what's democratically decided.
When have Unionists ever lowered themselves to show equality of respect or parity of esteem?
It's Sinn Fein who make a big play about Unionist outreach and parity of esteem- but in reality, it's only words for the sake of PR. The DUP, in particular, make no claim to be anything other than a purely communal party looking out for their own side- I don't agree with that stance but at least they are more honest about their motivations than SF.
Jeezo, they only ran a two tier sectarian state, under the auspices of HM for nigh on 50 years.
I can only account for my own actions not for what went on 30/40/50/60 years before me.
In my opinion, we basically have a sectarian administration in place today at Stormont- that's one of the reasons I'm opposed to devolution.
O'neill
>>if that's what's democratically decided then that's what's democratically decided.<<
My wider point that you seem to ignored is that it doesn't need to be like that. Your approval of DUP type communal politics leads nowhere, only deeper trenches. I heartilly disagree with your stance over SF reaching out to Unionists. I took you as having more about you than to resort to well worn nonsense such as this. Continually being suspicious of others good intentions, does not in itself make those intentions bad. SF have bent over backwards, for so little a return from Unionists as to induce ridicule in the nationalist community.
btw. Too many threads to cope with here.
My wider point that you seem to ignored is that it doesn't need to be like that.
At the minute, despite the numerous photo-opportunities there is no cross-community consensus on almost anything-
so we're left to democratic procedures and following the law of the land. If the Union flag is flown contrary to the law of the land then it should be taken down (even if I disagree with the law). If the majority wish to fly it then it should be flown since Belfast still remains part of the UK (and to go back to the original post, there has been only one official complaint in the last 5 years. Where I'd diverge with the DUP is their refusal to countenance anything other than British/Unionist/Ulster symbols within places like the City hall or Stormont.
SF have bent over backwards, for so little a return from Unionists as to induce ridicule in the nationalist community.
I know a little about the work and have the utmost respect for the folk on the ground both republican (some but not exclusively SF) and loyalists working in the very many interface areas to curb trouble. But I don't think that is unionist outreach, more an attempt to make sure that life becomes more tolerable for everybody in deproved areas.
But I have seen nothing on a more macro level to convince me that unionist outreach is a serious and not a pr project- eg how many people know who Martina's Anderson's replacement is in this area?
Apart from the opening fanfare at Stormont, can you name any tangible projects he or she's been involved in?
>>how many people know who Martina's Anderson's replacement is in this area?<<
Please Oneill, with Unionists laughing in your face, and being ridiculed in the Nationalist community. No wonder that kind of project has seemingly put on hold.
Also I reckon that you have done Republicans a disservice. They have enthusiastically joined in the devolution and peace process. Whereas by and large Unionists have been dragged along kicking and screaming.
No wonder that kind of project has seemingly put on hold.
It took me 10 minutes of googling to find out her replacement was and even then there was no notice there or on the SF site for anything that he has actually done since his appointment. But that's not what I'm trying to get at really, Unionism is not a monolith, what reaction you may get off the Dupes or the OO is not necessarily the same reaction you might get off an unemployed school-leaver on the Shankill. To me, real outreach is not the grandiose meetings with the media and one or two hand-picked prod dignitaries- it's doing real cross the board, bread and butter constituency work in places like W.Belfast where there are no or very ineffective Unionist reps. I can't see any evidence of that happening.
Regarding devolution, for reasons which differ from the more fundamentalist refuseniks, I don't believe it has laid foundation for true, long-lasting police. Regarding the "peace process"- over 70% of the population agreed to the Belfast Agreement including a majority of Unionists.
Fair comment.
Though I do believe that more and more working class Unionists are utilising Nationalist representatives, who to be fair are eager to please.
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