Despite the Irish Rugby Football Union receiving nearly 400,000 pounds from the British government (or taxpayers really), its officers have refused to meet two members from the House of Lords to discuss the ongoing row about declaring Belfast as an away venue for the Ireland team (and thus ensuring that our anthem and flag wouldn’t be sung and flown at the match).
Apparently there are rumblings of Ulster fans boycotting next week’s opening match against Italy next week, but I’d be very surprised if that comes to anything, my impression is that the majority of rugby fans in Ulster couldn’t care less about all this, which is obviously their democratic right.
But the present situation is a nonsense. If they really want to solve this dispute once and for all, there is a very easy answer; the IRFU should acknowledge the reality of the situation; if they want no British connection with their team, then fine, rename the team "Republic of Ireland" and they can then play the Republic’s anthem and wave its flag to their heart’s content (and dump the ridiculous dirge "Ireland’s Call" while they’re at it). Ulster players and fans can obviously then choose to whether to continue to play and support this team, I think a fair number probably still will. If they want to play internationals at Ravenhill, then that's between them and the Ulster Branch and as is proven every Sunday at GAA games, there's no ban on the Republic's anthem being played in Northern Ireland so they should feel perfectly free to do so.
There should, of course, be no further British funding for the IRFU and they should not be allowed to play under the name of "Ireland"; unlike the cricket team, they no longer deserve that particular priviledge.
13 comments:
Ulster players and fans can obviously then choose to whether to continue to play and support this team, I think a fair number probably still will
While I agree with you, the IRFU needs to address this problem, I do not however think that splitting from the IRFU is the answer. The fans can force their hand on this one and i believe that this is the best mechanism
Irish rugby is up there with the top teams on the international stage. It is professionally run and well respected.
A international NI team could be equally professional and could give players the international exposure that the Irish team currently has, but that could take years to build up. In the mean time players will be faced with the hard decision to either join with a fledgeling NI team or stick with the Irish team and the structures that already exist. It is most likely that the ROI team would be automatically accepted as the de facto team in the 6 nations and NI might not get entry due to its size and capabilities.
I think most players would opt to stay with the ROI team to be honest. The fans, will split along tribal lines and the happiest people of all will be those wishing for the split for political reasons as opposed to sport
I do not however think that splitting from the IRFU is the answer
I'm not really advocating a split, I don't think there is any potential for a NI team in all honesty.
I simply think the IRFU are no longer justified in calling their team an "Ireland" one, when it's quite clear that they are going to continue to ignore this flags and emblems issue.
Oh God, this again!
Look, Unionism needs to grow up here, and stop playing the MOPE card - traits of which you've probably picked up from Shinners who you share a divided society with... ah well...
The VAST, and I mean VAST majority of Irish citizens see the team as 'Ireland', the vast majority of the Island is part of the Independent Irish State 'Ireland' - and before the semantic toys get thrown out of the cot don't get into the 'ROI Vs. Ireland' argument, my Passport clearly states Eire/Ireland as the official name of the state, while ROI is the descriptive term, ergo the governing ethos of the team is 'Irish' with the attendant symbolism of the Irish state when games are played in Dublin.
This isn't nationalistic or republican or whatever neo-unionism decides to call expressions of the Irish state. It's a reality. All country's have them.
Now, for years Irish citizens happily played for the 'British Lions' (before someone spoke up/copped on and changed that particularly outmoded imperialistic hangover). Similarly, 'Ireland's Call' was adopted to address the identity issues of Unionist who wear the green jersey.
The Ravenhill instance was an example of poor judgement on the IRFU's part. Personally, I feel both national anthems should have been played.
But the major difference with this example is to my eyes one of protocol. No head of state was present, unlike in internationals in Dublin where both Taoiseach and President attend. And let's not forget that Dublin is a national capital of a independent sovereign state unlike that of a regional city like Belfast.
Now, you may argue semantics, and unionism may get it's panties in a bunch over a warm-up game but to take another tack, using a soccer example, I guess you'd want a young nationalist playing for NI to respect the majority symbolic ethos of the team, supporters etc. and play for the team regardless of politics?
You can't have it both ways? Can you?
So, why can't rugby players from Northern Ireland who may/ or may not be Unionist understand that 'Ireland' ultimately means something post-colonial for the vast majority of people on this Island and just get on with the game? Or should we play 'home' games on the Isle of Man?
As for a Boycott, I think that'd play into the hands of the little Ulster nationalists that you yourself aren't so fond of.
Split? If Ulster rugby's pool of talent is anything to go by, you need us, much much more than we need you!
Thanks Fakey, you've just demonstrated the point. There is no room for unionists in this so-called Ireland team, representative only of an Ireland that stops at Newry, unless they keep their heads down.
no that's not the case Beano, i don't say that or allude to that. Well done on side stepping the substantive issue in favor of the usual soundbites.
There's plenty of place in the team for all political stances and none. Just don't expect the vast majority of rugby supporters on this island to abandon the majority symbolism of the state where the majority of the team hails from. Sorry, but it hasn't happened when a nationalist plays soccer for NI so why expect it here. Or ignore the protocol of playing in a national (rather than regional) capital with heads of state, dip corp, present. Or look at the steps made to address the issue (Ireland's Call/ Neutral Flag flown etc).
Debate the issues not the usual MOPEry please.
Pathetic.
The difference between the NI football team and the Irish rugby team is that the NI football team do not claim to represent everybody on the island.
Whatever your passport may tell you, under international law there is no 32 county country called "Ireland". The flag of the Irish Republic is not our flag, the anthem is not ours, ergo the team sent out by the IRFU to play in the capital of the ROI under both emblems is not an Irish team. The attitude of the IRFU displayed in the Italy friendly confirmed what we already suspected, to all intents and purposes the "Ireland" team is nothing of the sort; like its footballing counterpart, it's a ROI team with Northern Irish guest players and supporters.
Just don't expect the vast majority of rugby supporters on this island to abandon the majority symbolism of the state where the majority of the team hails from.
No, you fire away with your "majority symbolism", just don't then pretend that the team support represents all Irishmen.
Despite what my Passport tells me... oh this is priceless!
So, it's despite what the UN/International community tells me. (Ireland as a member state of the UN, EU, WEU, etc etc,)
Despite what the UK Government (Your Government) tell me. (Embassy of Ireland, Government of Ireland etc?)
The name of my country/state is 'Ireland'. The description of the State is Republic of Ireland. Like Singapore is the Republic of Singapore... but only fools would go around calling it RoS!!!!
You may not like that, but it's a reality.
Your pedantic semantics aside, you had better get over it.
Of course the flag of Ireland isn't your flag, I understand that - ergo the IRFU fly a neutral 'IRFU' flag, please check any of the countless rugby sites to see this flag or the Shamrock flag as the symbol of the team.
Your squirming around the issue is funny. Playing in Dublin. President of Ireland present. Protocol demands that the National Anthem of the country is played. Along with the Rugby anthem.
As I've already said, Belfast represented poor judgment on the IRFU's part. But then again Ravenhill isn't in the national capital of the UK, no head of state was present... but please continue to carp on about it...
By your logic and previous arguments on the soccer issue, an Northern Ireland born Irish Nationalist, with his 'Irish' identity and identification with the Irish State should be compelled to play for the NI team with all the majority symbolism of NI (which is Unionist). Without any trade off or inclusion for his symbolic identity or sensitivities?
Protocol aside the majority symbolism of the Ireland rugby team is reflective of the majority of the teams support - you may not like that, it may stick in you craw and you and others like you may stamp your feet and bleet on about it til the cows come home but there it is, it's a reality.
But as per you comments as to the name of my country Unionism seems to have real problems with 'reality'.
Despite what my Passport tells me... oh this is priceless!
So, it's despite what the UN/International community tells me. (Ireland as a member state of the UN, EU, WEU, etc etc,)
Despite what the UK Government (Your Government) tell me. (Embassy of Ireland, Government of Ireland etc?)
The name of my country/state is 'Ireland'.
I really don’t know if you’re being deliberately obtuse here or not.
Ireland is an island. 26 counties of that island “belong” to the Republic of Ireland, 6 to Northern Ireland. Your state, your country is the Republic of Ireland. It is, of, course perfectly free to define itself how it wants; after all, Libya defines itself as the Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya; that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is Great, Socialist or even belonging to the people.
”Your squirming around the issue is funny. Playing in Dublin. President of Ireland present. Protocol demands that the National Anthem of the country is played. Along with the Rugby anthem.”
The “Ireland” team does not represent solely the Republic of Ireland, it purports to represent the island of Ireland. Yes or no?
By your logic and previous arguments on the soccer issue, an Northern Ireland born Irish Nationalist, with his 'Irish' identity and identification with the Irish State should be compelled to play for the NI team with all the majority symbolism of NI (which is Unionist). Without any trade off or inclusion for his symbolic identity or sensitivities?
I think this is probably the third time I’ve repeated this point, but let’s have another go.The day that the IFA claims to represent everybody on the island you will have an argument. The IRFU is not (technically anyway) the ROI RFU, it is the RFU of Ireland. It purports to represent everybody on the island,not only those who regard themselves as citizens of the ROI....that's the difference.
Protocol aside the majority symbolism of the Ireland rugby team is reflective of the majority of the teams support - you may not like that, it may stick in you craw and you and others like you may stamp your feet and bleet on about it til the cows come home but there it is, it's a reality.
Yep, and that "majority symbolism" is of the ROI.
That makes it your team, it’s no longer mine. End of story.
It's not just me:
Letter in this mornings Newsletter:
FOR over 40 years I have attended almost every rugby international played at Lansdowne Road and indeed have supported Ireland at all the other international grounds in the six nations.
However, I feel that after the debacle at Ravenhill, this must stop. At all the matches I have stood (inwardly cringing), while I listened to the Republic's anthem being played.
Only in the past number of years have I been able to listen to my own anthem being played when England were at Lansdowne Road. Many readers may not know that it is only in recent years that the anthems of the visiting countries were played at matches in Dublin.
In a match in the late 1980s France were the visitors and after the Republic's anthem had been played, the French supporters continued to stand as they sang unaccompanied the French anthem. This was very embarrassing to the IRFU and at all matches after that both teams' anthems were sung.
Of course, we unionists from Northern Ireland were happy that at last we could every other year hear our anthem at Lansdowne.
The anthem was not the only thing that made Lansdowne Park a cold place for unionists it was also the singing of the rebel song Fields of Athenry. We used to love to join in the singing of Molly Malone, but one season that changed to the Fields of Athenry.
Not only did the IRFU allow this, but, to their shame, they played the music over the loudspeakers to enable the crowd to sing it. They also put the words on the big screen.
We the ticket-paying supporters were not allowed by the IRFU and their henchmen at the Ulster Branch to have our national anthem played at the first international match to be held at Ravenhill in 50 years. Nor were we allowed to have our own flag flying.
Surely under the European Human Rights legislation this is wrong.
I, for one, will never step in an international match at Dublin again. The Ulster Branch must now see the shame that they have brought upon themselves.
In future I, as an Ulster-Scot, will be supporting my Ulster and Scotland. In the meantime..Forza Italia.
Rugby supporter
(name and address submitted)
Ok the human-rights bit is ever slightly OTT, everything else 100%.
So since when is 'The Fields of Athenry' a rebel song?
So since when is 'The Fields of Athenry' a rebel song?
Since Celtic/Cliftonville/Republic of Ireland fans started with the IRA add-ons:
Where once we watched the small free birds fly - hey baby, let the free birds fly,
Our love was on the wing - Sinn Fein,
We had dreams and songs to sing - IRA,
It's so lonely round the Fields of Athenry.
I trust that version isn’t the one sung at the rugby games.
Despite its political undertones, my main objection to the singing of Fields of Athenry is on aesthetic grounds, it must be one of the most whingey dirges known to man.
It kind of invalidates the anonymous letter writer's point though doesn't it? It's only a rebel song the lyrics are changed. In its pure form, there's nothing to object to. And it was only the pure version that the IRFU provided lyrics for and only then after it had already begun to be sung from the terraces.
As for it being a whingey dirge, well, it's a first person ballad about a famine in which a million died, so that's kind of appropriate. These kind of songs seem to work as sports anthems though. For instance, Liverpool FC use "You'll never walk alone" which isn't exactly exciting, but is well suited to the stadium setting.
It kind of invalidates the anonymous letter writer's point though doesn't it?
In it's original form you have apoint and if that's the one everyone sticks to as the rugby the fair enough, although I'm not sure that a song about a famine is really that appropriate for a sporting occasion.
And you'll "Never walk Alone" is probably the second most whingey dirge known to man.
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