"And in 2008, with firm conviction and resolve, we will make the case for the United Kingdom - standing up for the cause of the Union and against secession, showing people in all parts of the country that for so many of the challenges our country faces - from climate change to terrorism - there are no Wales-only, Scotland-only or England-only solutions."
...Or "Northern Ireland"-only solutions?
If you’re going to speak for "all parts of the country", then you should at least try to remember that includes even places without Labour MPs- places where your party, until recently, didn’t even have to decency to allow pro-socialist activists to organise local Labour Party branches.
Otherwise "your commitment" to "our country" comes across as being purely based on narrow party partisanship.
9 comments:
To be honest mate I don't think anyone really noticed, except those with interest in Northern Ireland
I think it's only me full-stop who's noticed really!!!!
Not that a big deal, whether he thinks we're part of his country or not, Gordon won't have any vote in any Border referendum deciding NI's future. But it's a bit confusing constantly speaking about "our country" without specifying which country he means.
OK,the UK is technically a country, but Britain isn't and England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales are also technically regarded as countries. If he'd said "Our Nation" then it would be much more clearer!!
Do you not get tired of being crapped on and ignored? Really?
Honestly, we want you in our happy United Republic, and both want your input and would have to listen to it given the size of the vote.
It's like watching an abused wife.
Do you not get tired of being crapped on and ignored? Really?
It's like watching an abused wife.
The abused wife comparison is so passe;)
We’re not in a marriage with the rest of the UK, more think of England, N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales as being troublesome siblings and the Uk govt as the parents trying to maintain control with a strong dash of love and occasionally a bit of necessary disclipine (cutting down on the kids’ pocket money and what have you).
For a long time N.Ireland was the wild-child of the family and the parents were constantly worrying about her future, but she’s grown up and her life has stabilised a bit, no longer any danger of her doing a midnight flit and running off with that dodgy, albeit sweet-talking and nouveau-riche bloke from the other side of the pond. Scotland’s now the one giving the trouble, staying out late, spending her poor parents hard-earned cash left, right and centre, worse than that she’s taken to giving a bit of the old abusive back-chat and insults. Things have got so bad that there’s talk of her now leaving home never to return. Of course, her parents have switched their concern now to Scotland and poor N.Ireland (and Wales. And England) occasionally gets neglected or forgotten about. But deep down we know that mum and dad still loves us all.
Now that’s a much more positive comparison isn’t?!!!
Honestly, we want you in our happy United Republic, and both want your input and would have to listen to it given the size of the vote.
More seriously, I’m under no illusions whatsoever that the first day of a United Ireland is the beginning of the end of the British presence/identity in Ireland. Going on the most recent election results even if every single unionist voted for a single party (highly unlikely), there was no emmigration post the UI (even more unlikely), we (ie those of us who consider ourselves to have British national identity) would be looking at having the same status as the Green Party; in all likelihood Irish nationalism at its rawest anti-British form (ie Sinn Fein) would play a more pivotal role in all island politics. I’d guess that some kind of “Protestant” or “ethnic” Britishness would survive, but for civic unionists like myself, the orangemen being guaranteed the right to march once a year is a very poor substitute for the priveledge of being able to pass on my British citizenship and national identity to my children or grand-children. Furthermore the addition of that (most likely) Protestant ethos to the ROI’s political scene is not the recipe for building up of the secular, liberal state that I would be comfortable to live in.
Furthermore the addition of that (most likely) Protestant ethos to the ROI’s political scene...
that should read "evangelical Protestant ethos"....
"..even if every single unionist voted for a single party... "
I doubt that elections in a United Ireland would be split along Unionist/Nationalist lines, but rather on a Right/Left axis, just like in England.
"...would be looking at having the same status as the Green Party..."
What kind of status do Ulster Unionists have at Westminster? Not much I think.
I doubt that elections in a United Ireland would be split along Unionist/Nationalist lines, but rather on a Right/Left axis, just like in England.
We’re moving deep into the realms of supposition and fantasy here, John, but I suspect we wouldn’t see the political split you mention for a number of reasons:
1.It is based on the notion that in the event of UI, all the folk-history and prejudices of the last 400 years or so would be buried and forgotten about, we’d all move on together to a sectarian-free nirvana.
The progress of the "Peace process" in NI has been largely because (rather than despite) of a deepening of the sectarian split in NI, the communities now feel happier and more safer apart than together. They can live divided and in peace, for the most, that’s enough. For the development of real politics you need, at the very least, a united civil society in NI- we haven’t got that and a UI would be highly unlikely to deliver it.
2.The Republic’s politics aren’t really divided along right/left lines are they? To an outsider the two main parties are both pragmatic conservatives following different variations of a neo-liberal economics. Why would NI joining the ROI change that situation?
3.And following on from that, the split in England and actually the rest of Western Europe is also no longer on the old right/left lines, you’ve really only now got different shades of social democrats, with the fringes being made up of the greens and far-right nationalists.
I think we’d get the same in the event of a United ireland, FF and FG would remain the two main parties, you’d get a few fringe parties in the rest of the present ROI and NI would be represented by parties reflecting narrow community/ethnic/religious interests.
4.As mentioned before, a UI would probably lead to an emigration of Ulster protestants, for the vast majority this would not be for sectarian, but economic reasons. Eg our public sector would be drastically reduced in the event of an UI, those presently working there would be forced to move away from the island to find similar work. These would most likely be the type of people who could, just feasibly, help to normalise politics in Ulster.
What kind of status do Ulster Unionists have at Westminster? Not much I think.
At the minute little, but (sadly) as evidenced by their attendance records, I don’t think that bothers the majority of them now that they’ve got their snouts in their own little trough up at Stormont.
In the event of a hung parliament, they, like any other smaller party, could play the role of kingmaker.
But you also miss a very important point about the UK’s democratic system, unless you are actually in government none of the oppostion parties have "status" at Westminster; we simply don’t do coalitions and as a result, the LDs, the various nationalist parties and even the Tories also have very little “status” at Westminster at the minute.
It really depends what Unionist would want in the event of a United Ireland - whether to be subsumed totally into the system or not. But assuming there were a couple of "Unionist" parties, they would weld considerable power, much more than is ever exercised in Westminster.
As both the PDs and the Greens (not to mention independents) show, you don't have to be large to carry great influence within the Dail. And the economic and social policies of both FF and FG are largely closer to Unionism than SF, who I think would be at much greater risk of salami slicing anyway. The National Question and protecting community interest is the engine of SF. This goes in a UI.
Second, I think you are wrong with regards to a United Ireland meaning the end of Ulster Protestants retaining a unique identity. For a start, such issues would be dealt with at the negotiation stage and protections put in, on both British and Irish side. I'd expect extra territorial passport laws similar to those in place now, so you could quite happily hand on your nationality.
But you are also missing the wider picture. Ireland North and South will become a lot more multicultural over the course of the next few decades. If Unionism could not be accommodated, then neither could the legions of Eastern Europeans, Africans and others be accommodated.
But you are also missing the wider picture. Ireland North and South will become a lot more multicultural over the course of the next few decades
Jury's still out on that one I think.
NI clearly has direct racism problems, whilst the ROI's, or at its citizens', commitment to a multi-cultural society hasn't really been tested yet, not hwile the economic boon continues.
The crunch will come when the inevitable recession arrives, if a truly multi-cultural and tolernat society survives that, then it will be there to stay.
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