The British Nationality Act of 1981 provides the latest legislative definition of "Britishness":
The British Nationality Act 1981 came into force on 1 January 1983. It defines who is British by birth and how people may become British through naturalisation or registration.
Birth in the UK
People who were born in the UK before 1983 were automatically British citizens by birth. The only exception to this was children whose parents were working here as diplomats at the time they were born.
Anybody born here after 1 January 1983 is automatically British if at the time of the birth:
• One of their parents was a British citizen.
• One of their parents was allowed to stay here permanently.
So quite clear there, anyone born in the Uk pre-1983 is a British (not UK) citizen, anyone born in the UK post 83, with at least one British parent, also entitled to regard themselves as British citizen.
So, whilst Northern Ireland remains a part of the United Kingdom, anyone born there is thus automatically a British citizen (whether they acknowledge or take pride in that fact is immaterial, they can only renounce this automatic citizenship by writing to the Home Secretary).
Legally, Northern Irish people are entitled to label themselves as “British”.
Now, of course, the Belfast Agreement of 1998 took this a step further for those of us living in Northern Ireland, by stating that the two governments and the other signatories:
vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.
So, not only are Northern Irish people legally entitled to British citizenship, their right to a British national identity is also recognized by the UK and Irish governments. And theoretically also by SDLP and Sinn Fein.
Within the guarantees provided by that legal framework, it's obviously then up to each individual in the United Kingdom to decide how British they actually feel; but just as it is wrong (and rather erm...fascist) for the likes of the BNP to inform those people that may not fall within their narrow ethnic and racial parameters that they have no right to regard themselves as British, then so it is also wrong (legally and morally) and rather erm....fascist for those of us to be living in Northern Ireland to be denied the self-same right to regard ourselves as British.
*Any future comments on this subject should be posted here and not on any other irrelevant topics (eg commemorations of the victims of terrorism). I'll remove any such comments in the future and, depending on my mood, either repost them here or delete them.
Update:
Beano takes the whole "subject" versus "citizen" debate a stage further here.
16 comments:
There's a difference that needs to be stated between being British (a legal definition) and ones sense of Britishness (personal).
I'm British but I don't feel a great deal of Britishness (though that may actually make me seem more British than someone that like Gordon Brown who feels the need to keep banging on about it).
"There's a difference that needs to be stated between being British (a legal definition) and ones sense of Britishness (personal)"
That's of course true and I know that many in England, Scotland and Wales don't have as strong a sense of Britishness as their Englishness, Scottishness and Welshness....but as you say that's very much a personal thing.
Where I get irritated (as I did with the original commentator) is where "Britishness" is defined as belonging to one specific group or part of the UK (or as Brown and NUlabour try to do, as possessing specific characteristics).
If you're a British citizen and you feel British then you are British and nobody has the right to deny you that right.
If you're a British citizen and you feel British then you are British and nobody has the right to deny you that right.
No problem there. Its interesting that you appear to be differentiating between being a British citizen and essentially feeling culturally British.
Do you consider yourself a British Citizen or a British Subject ? Is there not a complicated description, in law, as to who is considered a subject and who is considered a citizen
Do you mind me asking if your in favour of a Monarchy or are you a Republican with a capital R
Surely you would be a subject of the Queen rather than a British subject?
Surely you would be a subject of the Queen rather than a British subject?
True enough. Any thoughts yourself on that. To me, as a southern Irish person, the term subject just doesnt ring nicely to me. Too used to our presidents down here where we are all citizens. I suppose im asking, if someone asked you, would you call yourself a British Citizen or a Subject and if you went for the former would that be because of uncomfort with the latter
Interesting.
Personally, my reading of the situation is one's nationality within Northern Ireland is a matter of choice, that while a person can be a born citizen of NI, their individual nationality can be exclusively British or Irish or both, meaning an Irish citizen can be born in NI, work and vote within NI without having to be 'British' in either a personal or legal context.
Representing everyone as 'British' whether than like it or not on the basis of NI presently being part of the UK is a misnomer that was dealt with in GFA/St Andrews where both nationalities are legally respected and operate on parity with NI.
A couple of corrections:
1) There is no such thing as a British subject any more*. We're all British Citizens. The subject thing is just a myth put about by Republicans (presumably through ignorance more than mischief).
2) Everyone born in Northern Ireland (like anywhere else in the UK) is a British citizen**. You only lose your British citizenship if you explicitly renounce it (I believe by writing to the Home Secretary).
* A slight over-simplification. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject
** Another over-simplification, but in terms of this discussion it's more or less correct. Actually everyone born in NI before 1983 is a British Citizen and so is anyone who is born in the UK who had at least one parent who has British Citizenship or is 'settled' in the UK. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_birth_in_the_United_Kingdom
There is no such thing as a British subject any more*. We're all British Citizens. The subject thing is just a myth put about by Republicans (presumably through ignorance more than mischief)
Interesting point Beano, as I was saying, I was aware that there was some complicated change in the law relatively recently that tried to clear it all up.
However I must take you up over this point. Im not sure if you are a reader of A Tangled Web, but there are a number of bloggers and indeed posters on that site who are quite adamant on their status as 'subjects' as opposed to 'citizens'. Is it not the case that those more elder British folk might be more inclined to regard themselves as citizens due to the fact that they probably hold more respect for the monarchy then the younger generation (the war an all that)
British folk might be more inclined to regard themselves as citizens due to the fact that they probably hold more respect for the monarchy then the younger generation (the war an all that)
Meant to say 'Subjects', not 'Citizens' there. And I acknowledge that although they may regard themselves as subjects, they are most likely legally citizens.
"However I must take you up over this point. Im not sure if you are a reader of A Tangled Web, but there are a number of bloggers and indeed posters on that site who are quite adamant on their status as 'subjects' as opposed to 'citizens'. "
I think a fair few of them over there now regard themselves as "subjects" of the European Union rather than the Queen!
But regarding Kloot's main point, despite many reservations, I acknowledge that the Queen as the titular head of the state that I owe allegiance to, but personally my greater loyalty is to the state rather than its present head, so I suppose that does make me a citizen rather than subject.
JD
I wasn't implying that everyone in NI (or indeed the Uk as a whole) is British whether they want to be or not...they are however (if born within the UK) technically British citizens. The British nationality act I referred to isn't (afaik) superseded by the GFA but runs parallel...so if you are born in NI then you are de facto a British citizen(unless, as Beano pointed out, you renounce that citizenship).
The GFA does reiterate your right to take Irish citizenship (this right did exist pre the GFA), but again, for the reason I mentioned, legally I think that would mean that you have dual citizenship as opposed to only just Irish.
Regards cultural and national identity, then that obviously is as elsewhere in the world completely up to the individual
The Queen is technically the head of the British state and I suppose (technically) then we are her "subjects".
Ignore that last sentence
Kloot. In answer to your question - I am prepared to acknowledge the Queen as head of state, but I would be uncomfortable with the status of subject. Neither am I a huge proponent of heritory monarchy.
Hi O'Neill...
"They are however (if born within the UK) technically British citizens"
Kinda proves my point - British whether they want to be or not.
jd
Well, yes, but that would also apply to a host of other people for a host of different reasons in England, Scotland and Wales, so Irish nationalists in NI are not being picked on here with this legisaltion
Just because you're born in the Uk, you're not forced to regard yourself as "British" or even carry a British passport...it does technically make you a British citizen though, just the same as you are also technically a citizen of the European Union even though you may not be pleased to acknowledge the fact.
Sorry, O'Neill, I'm neither pleased nor displeased with the fact that technically anyone born in NI is a British citizen. I was simply pointing a discrepancy in your position that I think cuts the rug out from liberal Unionism credentials.
It's akin to the SF'er who says 'of course we respect Unionists right to feel British and identify with Britain - but you know, they're really Irish because they're born on the Island of Ireland so therefore are technically Irish'.
It's reductionism and it's nonsense.
Also I'm happy to be an EU citizen - being 'European' is a part of my identity that I enjoy.
"Sorry, O'Neill, I'm neither pleased nor displeased with the fact that technically anyone born in NI is a British citizen."
That last sentence of mine was rhetorical, not aimed at you in particular; the pint being anyone born in the UK, is also a citizen of the EU, there are plenty europhobes who would try to deny that fact, but fact it is. But taking that technical fact into account, how European they want to feel or label themselves is completely up to them.
"It's akin to the SF'er who says 'of course we respect Unionists right to feel British and identify with Britain - but you know, they're really Irish because they're born on the Island of Ireland so therefore are technically Irish'."
Well actually they're right! Surprised?! Anyone born on the island of Ireland is technically, through reasons of pure geography, Irish. Do many unionists care much about the Irish side of their identity, unfortunately "no" and that is their choice. They have a British (or in some cases Ulster) national and cultural identity, one which does not fit in with the rest of the island, but that still does not remove the fcat they are technically Irish.
Now, moving onto my main point. Through legislation I mentioned earlier anyone born in any part of the UK is a British citizen...they may have an English, Welsh, irish, Scottish, jamaican, Polish etc national or cultural identity but that doesn't do away with the fcat that for pure legislative reasons they are British citizens.
through.
"lso I'm happy to be an EU citizen - being 'European' is a part of my identity that I enjoy.
"
Me too, but |'m not sure about the relevance to the point in hand?
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