They don't say it too loud down in Dublin - they are often drowned out by the romantic republican ballads struck up in pubs just before closing time - but the Ireland's silent majority believes the north should already be at rest; neither they nor their political leaders in the Dáil are going to expend most of their energy on the sectarian circus at Stormont.
Very wise.
Henry McDonald in The Guardian.
10 comments:
Is that really comething to be proud of the fact that your part of Ireland is such a hell hole that some people south are uneasy about unification.Besides if there was a referendum we all now what the result would be in south no party would campaign for a no vote
I really wish people would start reading my posts before moving into auto-knee-jerk mode.
I, McDonald, the ROI's government and it would seem a fair proportion of the ROI's electorate believe that the DUP and SF have succeeded into turning Stormont into a sectarian cesspit, full of cretins who shouldn't be given the power to decide what flowers should be planted at Belfast City Hall, never mind be put in charge of "policing and justice". That is not a matter, as you appear to assume, of pride to anyone living in Northern Ireland, including me. If you disagree with my, McDonald's, the ROI's government and electorate's analysis, then why don't you set out your reasons for doing so and at least contribute to the debate?
Regarding the result of any referendum in the ROI...a question for you, a fully independent cost and benefits analysis of the "Unification" scenario has never been undertaken by any of the ROI's parties, or the SDLP and SF- any guesses why not?
Their heart tells them one thing, their head something quite different.
the DUP and SF have succeeded into turning Stormont into a sectarian cesspit
And Stormont (like Northern Ireland in general) was a haven of non-sectarian sweetness and light when exactly?
And Stormont (like Northern Ireland in general) was a haven of non-sectarian sweetness and light when exactly?
Speaking as an English onlooker to this little spat I can't help but also comment "And the Republic of Ireland was a haven of non-sectarian sweetness and light when exactly?".
It is not for nothing that the RoI was widely seen as a Catholic Theocracy in which Protestants were despised and where the Catholic Priest on Boards of Governors ensured that jobs in schools, hospitals and the like were unavailable to them.
The Republic has made great strides in recent years. There is no reason why Northern Ireland can't do the same.
Returning to the current bone of contention, it seems obvious that Alliance should be given the policing job. Sinn Fein and the DUP are both sectarian bigots and manifestly unsuitable for such a role.
And Stormont (like Northern Ireland in general) was a haven of non-sectarian sweetness and light when exactly?
One of the reasons people gave for signing the Belfast Agreement was that they believed it would lead to an lessening of sectarianism in society- ten years on, not one peace wall has come down (they're building new ones) and we have the DUP and SF in power. The devolution experiment has failed in what most people would have defined as its prime objective. Re the previous history of NI and Stormont, I'd actually be in agreement with Sir Edward Carson who accepted the first devolved parliament in 1921 with deep foreboding- it would have been better for Unionism if NI had been fully integrated in the UK at that point and been governed in exactly the same way as the rest of the UK, from Westminster. I'd also argue that is also an answer to our present stalemate, when the DUP argue against a return to westminster,what they are arguing really is that they do not want to live under a British parliament which rules according to the basic principles of British liberty and justice.
Wildgoose
Returning to the current bone of contention, it seems obvious that Alliance should be given the policing job. Sinn Fein and the DUP are both sectarian bigots and manifestly unsuitable for such a role.
Even if they did get it, the present system of checks and balances means that the extremists would be the puppet-masters of any policing minister. Better to employ a technocrat who doesn't have to answer the local politicians, but only directly to the citizens of NI and Westminster.
Wildgoose, protestants did hold high office in the south after independence.
To give some examples Presidents Hyde and Childers and deputy prime ministers Childers (yeah the same President Childers) and Blythe. And of course Garret Fitzgerald mother was a Protestant (her father in turn was a high ranking Ulster Unionist businessman John McConnell), President Robinson was married to a Protestant and the greatest Prime Minister Sean Lemass was of Hugenot Protestant origin (despite being a Catholic and educated by the Christian Brothers Dev regarded him as a "protestant" particularly due to Lemass' interest in money. According to Dev good Catholics were not interested in cash!).
Of course the south was heavily influenced by the church - ban on contraception, ban of abortion etc. However it was not the complete priest-ridden swamp some would like to portray it.
On the other side of the border of course to the best of my knowledge no Catholic held high office apart from the first Chief Justice till Sunningdale. Maybe O'Neill could correct me on this.
However the South lecturing the North on long term grudges is a bit rich. The result of the Civil War dominated the politics of the south for the first 40 years of independence and of course still reflects in party divisions.
As they say, the difference between FF and FG is the difference between shit and shite!
Of course the south was heavily influenced by the church - ban on contraception, ban of abortion etc. However it was not the complete priest-ridden swamp some would like to portray it.
For a variety of reasons the protestant population slumped in the Free State/ROI from 10% in 192o to just under 3% in 1990. However, the church dictating to the state on issues such as contraception, abortion and divorce (not legalised until the 90s)played little part, generally irish protestants are as socially conservative as their RC neighbours. You mentioned several prominent protestants (or at least connected to protestant families) but it wasn't the Anglo-irish aristocracy or the Castle elite who suffered most under the Free state; it was the *ordinary* working and middle-class urban protestants in places like Dublin and Cork and the farming community in the border counties who had the hardest time in a state and local communities which regarded them as, if not persona non grata, then certainly not real Irishmen
On the other side of the border of course to the best of my knowledge no Catholic held high office apart from the first Chief Justice till Sunningdale. Maybe O'Neill could correct me on this.
Post 1921, two separate civil and political societies evolved in NI,this was something that Carson as I mention before saw as the direct result of devolving power to Stormont. Very few Catholics recognised the validity of the state, very few Catholics (or working-class protestants come to that) served (or had the opportunity to) in any kind of high office in the state- I really do believe that if Northern Ireland had continued to be governed from Westminster (in exactly the same way as Scotland and wales) then a much more fairer society would have evolved post 1922.
The UK parliament is hardly a bastion of freedom and justice at the moment in case you NI unionists hadn't noticed. I'm sure the Ulster 'parliament' you have over there is a huge embarrassment to you all but we're ruled by corrupt, authoritarian scumbags on the mainland too.
I'm sure the Ulster 'parliament' you have over there is a huge embarrassment to you all but we're ruled by corrupt, authoritarian scumbags on the mainland too.
The fact is that we're not being ruled by them at the minute, they are too busily squabbling and claiming their wage-packets to get down to anything approaching governance. I take your point about some of Westminster's denizens- however, quite simply if any Westminster MP carried out the same way as Iris Robinson did this summer they would have been put out pronto on their ear. And that's not even starting on the abortion and other social justice questions.
Post a Comment